Lovely game. 16 icons so far and counting ;)

Yeah - really cool. Note the "Z" key for jump. :-D
That's how it's done 65E6+1 BC. :-P

Yeah, its pretty good. But how do you figure out when you've got them all? I had quadruple jump and everything black in the bar on the top right (except one blank and two flashing)

What does that mean?!

Man, you really have a thing about "z" to jump don't you? :P

I dunno - sometimes it makes sense to press up to jump - for example, if the game requires that you're always running, or if there are more than one action buttons. It makes sense here, though, I agree.

Yep - that is part of my crusade against simple mistakes in platformer design. I'm widely hated for it. ;-)

I'd say that up for jump makes sense only when, in fact, there AREN'T any other action buttons (look: Precision by cactus). If there are more actions then jump should be treated as one of them and up should be, well up, as in "climbing up ladders", "aiming up", "moving up" or "looking up". =)

Developers should realize that the keyboard is basically quite similar to a very large gamepad and you don't see console devs using the D-pad for jumping. :-P

If you want to know what up for jump looks in a game requiring multiple actions then try to play 65E6+1 BC and read my rant on this matter.

Well, by more than one action I kinda meant stuff that couldn't easily be mapped to a direction - like, I dunno - maybe one button to switch weapons, another to fire, another to use a grenade... in that scenario, having a forth button to jump isn't a great solution.

HOWEVER: That's if you're playing with a keyboard. On a joypad, it's a totally different story.

Honestly, I don't especially care either way :P

A game that could otherwise be played with one hand (like Precision) is a good example too, thanks :)

Haha, I just realised - I just described the control scheme from Cave Story :D Ok, I take it back - it's almost never a good idea to use up to jump :)

alot of people (non-gamers mostly) dont use three fingers over the direction buttons, so simultaneous running and jumping never occours to them unless the jump button is pressed by their other hand :)

Someone really should make a one-switch game with a separate button for jumping...

Someone really should make a one-switch game with a separate button for jumping...

You Have to Flip the Switch? :-D

Haha, I just realised - I just described the control scheme from Cave Story :D Ok, I take it back - it's almost never a good idea to use up to jump :)

Precisely. Have you noticed how most Japanese developers realized that a long time ago? Virtually all their titles (Cave Story being one of them) use the Z/X buttons or Z/X/C and so on. I guess it's because they're a nation of gamers and are very console-savvy...

up is a great jump button on a keyboard. there's no need for the player to use two hands on games that has jump as the only action.

up is a great jump button on a keyboard. there's no need for the player to use two hands on games that has jump as the only action.

Ehm - do you EVER operate the keyboard with only one hand? I mean, so as not to keep the second hand resting in reach of some buttons even if it's currently not doing anything? If this is the case then I don't want to know what you're doing with it. ^^

I guess it's the same reason as to why there are mouse gestures in certain internet browsers. ;-)

Also, I'd like to point out that it's not only a matter of ergonomics but also of how your brain works.

If you're using up for jump then you're effectively using one hand both for directional control AND an action, which is counter-intuitive.

No, jump is NOT a direction, it's an action.

One of the ways you can realize that is by looking at the language itself and analyzing the verb "to jump" semantically and pragmatically. If the expression contained an implied direction (like "up") then things like "jump up", "jump down" or "jump left" (the verb with any preposition adding a direction to the action) etc. would be pleonasms, semantic errors, yet clearly they are not.

This is basically the same thing you're doing in properly designed control schemes. You press a button with one hand and choose an action, e.g. shoot and choose a direction for the action with the other, e.g. up, hence the action+direction structure handled by different hands (and thus different brain hemispheres!) is preserved and everything feels fine and natural.

I guess you could take a non-linguistic approach to this explanation, e.g. a psychological or biological one but you have to keep in mind that according to many, if not most modern linguistic theories (unlike older ones, e.g. structuralism) language structures are closely related to the way our cognitive processes are structured.

P.S. Notice one psychobiological implication of my post: if you're using only one hand to control a game, most of the time you're in fact using only one brain hemisphere and while that might seem less straining it surely isn't more effective than relaying some of the "stress" to the other hemisphere.

Oh, the omnivorous Hive Mind, save me from linguistics at least at indiegames!
Seriously, I study at a linguistics university... Luckily, I've chosen GUI semiotics as my area of expertise so I don't have to deal with words. Did you know human body parts are the most popular image on action icons in adveture games? Not THE body parts but still. Anyway... I would agree that one can "jump" anywhere. But what if someone names it Areas-style - without using words and explains in signs: "Arrow up for adding upwards vector to motion"?

whatever you say, lim dul, the up button still feels pretty durn comfy to me.

for me it's the whole matter of having that other hand free.
being able to lean on my elbow, hold a glass of water or cup of coffee/tea, spreading my arm out across the table, poke around in my nose, whatever. when i'm playing a lazy game (say, knytt) there's no reason why i shouldn't sit back and be able to scratch my tummy while playing. sometimes i just dislike having to keep both hands in a static position. i'm a lazy gamer and will play games with leisure whenever i can.

but that's just my opinion on the matter.

no one's going to say that your opinion is wrong, it wouldn't matter if you found the perfect mathematical formula to prove that the z-button is THE button for jumping. everyone's still gonna have their own opinions and quirks on how it (and everything else) should work.

i'm all for different setups and key configurations, to fit all hands and minds.

(ps: i love z as the jump button)

In games like Jumper, I prefer just using the up key to jump. I've always play most of my games with the up key if possible.

Ha, ha - we linguists are everywhere - taking over the world, one site at a time. ;-)
I got a masters degree in applied linguistics. University of Warsaw. ^^
As to sign language: I guess you're right but there are quite a few ways in which this could be interpreted and again many ways in which you could add an upwards vector to motion. However, I agree that the arrow keys would be more suitable for describing it than e.g. the "Z" key, even though we're entering a new layer of abstraction here, assigning arrow-keys on the keyboard to hand motions and forward on the horizontal plane to the upwards direction, which may seem obvious to modern computer users but was this association always obvious to humans in general (the arrow keys, not the hand gesture)? =)

When I hear about sign language I always recall this one joke about a cowboy and a Native American that, I suppose, only linguists find funny. Sadly it requires hand motions so I won't be able to tell it. :-\

when i'm playing a lazy game (say, knytt)

Hold on a second - both in Knytt and Knytt Stories you use "S" to jump. In fact any other control type wouldn't work since you have to climb walls in these games - you have to have a directional key for "up" which is separate from the jump button. =)

i'm all for different setups and key configurations, to fit all hands and minds.

Me (or the hyper-correct "I"), too. Sadly, sometimes developers don't give players even this simple option... This is especially bothersome if we're facing a more complicated platformer.

Anyways - up for jump doesn't work if there are parts of the game in question in which you're supposed to "do something upwards" without actually jumping, like, climbing walls, shooting upwards etc.

There's a reason why I brought up 65e6+1 in the first place. The game has configurable buttons but is nevertheless messed up because the jump and up functions aren't (and can't be) separated and since you're supposed to perform wall-climbing and wall-jumping (when "up", or any other key you bind it to, sometimes means "up" and sometimes "jump" with keys being remapped constantly - pure madness) in this particular title it has reminded me recently how awfully you can screw up the controls in a platformer if you're not careful. =)

In games like Jumper, I prefer just using the up key to jump. I've always play most of my games with the up key if possible.

I always play my platformers on a gamepad if I can be bothered to set them up in JoyToKey. ;-)
Sadly 65e6+1 BC was messed up so much that you couldn't even configure a gamepad properly. :-P

I went as far as writing an e-mail to 65e6+1 BC's devs so that they at least consider my comments and maybe let the player configure the controls to his or her liking but I didn't get a reply.

I was pretty annoyed since I WANTED to buy and play this game because of its graphics, setting and humor but the control layout ruined the whole experience for me and from what I gathered from different sources for some other people as well... =)

i think, even if we traveled back in time 5000 years, "up" would still be "up" on a 2D plane :)

*I got a masters degree in applied linguistics. University of Warsaw.*
We're not that far... Moscow's my location.

*for me it's the whole matter of having that other hand free.*
Lucky you. When I play a flight sim I have left hand on the throttle, right on joystick, legs work pedals and head (it's a limb now) wears a device for view panning. :)

Reassignable controls rock but, as Lim-Dul says, poor design decisions can ruin everything. Recently I had to reveiew some ugly commercial 3D WW1 plane arcade for the mag where I work. Guess what - there was one key that was responsible for forward booster AND for 180 degree turn. One tap for turn, two taps and hold for booster. No way to split them. Imagine having half of enemy's airforce on your tail, nil hitpoints, a full health pickup ahead. You tap for booster too fast, the game ignores one tap aaand...

I enjoyed this game.
Finished both modes, all icons.
Lunker mode is hard.

For anything halfway professional, assignable keys are expected. For simpler games, it really isn't THAT hard to make two buttons (like both Up and Z) do the same thing. At least, that's the case coding in C. I don't know about Game Maker and the like.