Interview: Phil Fish (Fez)
It's been close to a year since the last published interview with Phil Fish was posted on the web, so we decided to do a bit of catching up with the designer of Fez and new face of IGF by asking him a couple of questions to find out what he's been working on.
Hi Phil, can you tell us something about yourself and what it is exactly that you do?
I'm Phil Fish, and I co-founded two things: Kokoromi and Polytron. One is an experimental game/art collective, and the other is a company. I do art and design on all my projects. And I guess I'm mostly known for Fez.
Any plans to put out something before the release of Fez, or ideas on what to do next after Fez?
I'm working on a couple of different things. I can't write a single line of code, so I always have to work with a good programmer.
Right now I'm collaborating with Alec Holowka on a little iPhone game that will probably come out way before Fez. It's a bit early to commit to anything yet, but Alec and I are making this cool little game that's all about multi-touch. You play as a little dose of medicine inside people's bodies, and you have to cure them.
And Kokoromi is making a game for GAMMA 3D this year (we didn't make one for last year).
Tell us more about GAMMA 3D then.
GAMMA is in its third year this year, and this time around the theme is stereoscopy (of the red/blue variety). It's taking place in Montreal, on November 19th. All the details can be found at www.kokoromi.org/gamma3d.
I noticed this cool fact the other day. GAMMA, BLiP, T.O JAM and the I AM 8-BIT show are all three years old this year. So I guess 2006 really was the year of the cultural game related annual event!
Any central location where we can get the games submitted to GAMMA from previous years?
All the games that were released by their creators (some weren't) are available on the Kokoromi site.
When will the games from GAMMA 3D be made available for download, for the people who cannot attend?
That's all up to their creators. Developers retain all rights to their games. But usually, yeah, most of those games end up being released online.
What were your favorite GAMMA games from previous years?
Last year saw some truly awesome games. Petri's Bloody Zombies was great fun, and so was Mr. Heart Loves You Very Much. Both made great use of their clever little gameplay twists.
And of course, Jason Rohrer's Passage blew everybody's mind and went on to make waves everywhere for months and months.
Since GAMMA 3D submissions requires 3D glasses, any recommendations on where to get the proper equipment to play the games once they're available for download?
Yes. You can buy really cheap 3D glasses from eBay. They cost like 40 cents each.
We had this meeting with this stereoscopy expert friend of ours, and we asked him what our options were. And he gave us three options. We could use polarized lenses, with special projectors and special screens, all very expensive, and practically impossible for the developers to test on a computer. Then we had these crazy double-matrix TV of the future, that can work WITHOUT GLASSES, but then again, super pricey and impossible to test.
And so remained the good old anaglyphic glasses, which can easily be tested on any kind of screen, monitor or projector, is super cheap, and has that nice little low-fi aesthetic that lends itself so well to the kind of experimentation we hope will take place. We did some tests recently, at the venue, on their projectors, and just a simple rotating wireframe model was spectacular.
Do you have any plans to take GAMMA out of Montreal?
We'd like to take it on the road, actually. Since so much of the fun comes from actually being at the party, we're thinking of taking the party to other cities.
What are your future plans for GAMMA?
Well, we'll wait to see how things go with GAMMA 3D before we start thinking about GAMMA 4.
How did the idea for GAMMA 3D came about?
Funny story, the idea for GAMMA 3D came to us on the cab ride home from GAMMA 256. Last year, our cut for the night (there is a cover) was something like 30 bucks. So we just used it to pay ourselves a cab ride home.
And on the way home, I mused about how since year 2 was 256, we should try to come up with a theme that incorporates the number 3. And the first thing that came to mind was GAMMA 3D. We immediately became super excited about the prospect of a stereoscopic gamma. And it was pretty much decided right there and then.
Then at GDC we met with some gentlemen from Texas Instruments, who wanted to show us their crazy new 3D TVs that use shutter glasses for amazing HD stereoscopy that runs at 120fps. They showed us all sorts of cool 3D stuff in games, but all using games like Call of Duty and Project Gothams. The games jumped out of the TV, and it looked incredible, but there was no gameplay to it at all. But it was fantastic HD 3D.
And that got us even more excited about GAMMA 3D, because stereoscopy in games is still totally unexplored territory. Even the few next-gen games being developed now with 3D modes, they are still being developed to be played on regular TVs.
Since the game is still developed for the lowest common denominator, who's a dude with a regular TV, the stereoscopy remains a flashy extra with no consequences on gameplay. So, if you think of GAMMA 3D as a unified platform where 100% of the users are equipped for 3D, it becomes really interesting.
Will there be free flow of drinks at GAMMA 3D?
Some of it will be free, yes.
Anything you're looking forward to playing in IGF this year? Early predictions?
Well, I'm not sure exactly who's entering what, but I can't wait to find out. IGF just keeps getting better and better every year. And I'm really looking forward to seeing Annabelle's game, Ciellus.
Any plans on participating in another IGF competition?
If I can some other year, yeah sure, why not. It's great fun, and it helps me to have a rock solid deadline. I can submit FEZ+!
I'm really excited to be on the other side next year. And I'm glad I have a good reason to go to GDC again!
What are some of your favorite indie games? And what's your favorite IGF entry from last year?
Well, I don't like to play favorites. So in no particular order I'd say Braid, Crayon Physics Deluxe, Everyday Shooter, Rescue: The Beagles and I totally consider Geometry Wars to be an indie classic, considering it was a one man job, and is totally amazing.
My favourite last year was definitely Crayon Physics Deluxe. It's just such a pure joy of a game. Petri and I have a little idea we want to get started on. He's crashing my place for GAMMA, so hopefully we can get started on that then.
Final question then. Anything you'd like to say to the eager fans of Fez?
Winning the IGF was great and all, but now we're being real careful not to be victims of premature hype. We knew the game was going to take a while to make, considering it's pretty much just me and Renaud. We didn't want to sustain a year-long hype campaign, and it's so bizarre to have fans of something that isn't even out yet!
But if you think you like it now, just wait. JUST YOU WAIT.
Comments
Fez is an interesting project.
will it be freeware?
Posted by: AuthenticKaizen | August 30, 2008 7:30 PM
no it will not.
Posted by: FISH | August 30, 2008 9:05 PM
allright...it was a rumour that i read on the net.
anyways the game seems to be worth to spend some money on it.
Posted by: AuthenticKaizen | August 30, 2008 9:35 PM
Awesome interview. I was expecting more funny from Fish. :P
Posted by: Tr00jg | August 30, 2008 10:19 PM
"I can't write a single line of code."
When I read this, I think "you are a lazy bum". Programming is not hard. I do not believe there is a single person in the world, barring the mentally impaired, who could not learn to write a simple BASIC program.
I recommend actually trying some. It's rewarding, and it will give you more understanding of what the people you work with are doing, which can only be useful.
Posted by: brog | August 31, 2008 11:10 AM
There are a lot of things which are simple but which people haven't learned to do, though. Riding a bike is relatively simple, pretty useful, and easy enough that anyone can learn to do it. But I don't know how to ride a bike. Ditto with swimming. I'm sure it'd be very useful to swim or ride a bike, but I haven't gotten around to learning either yet. I don't think it makes me lazy, because I spent time learning other things. I suspect it's the same with Fish and programming.
Posted by: Paul Eres | August 31, 2008 2:45 PM
I don't think Fish is a lazy bum if he can't code. This way he can concentrate on his awesome design.
It's the same thing as songwriting with a band, really. You don't have to know how to play drums and horns and you can still write an awesome song on a piano and get some guys with drums and horns to play it.
Posted by: Bellyache | August 31, 2008 4:17 PM
Bellyache: I do not think he is lazy for getting other people to code his games so that he can concentrate on the design. This makes sense, it is efficient to specialise. He is lazy for not ever having bothered to learn to write a single line of code, and he could benefit from learning some so that he has a good understanding of what the people he is working with are doing.
Paul Eres: I expect that you are lazy for not learning to ride a bike. I may be mistaken, because it might be that you walk or take public transport everywhere you go. If this is the case, I do not think you are lazy. Chances are that instead you lazily drive around in a filthy polluting car. I apologise in advance and retract this statement if it is not true.
Not having learnt to swim is perfectly acceptable if you don't live somewhere permeated with water. It would be shockingly negligent if you lived in Venice, for example. Similarly, not having learnt to program is acceptable if you don't live in a world permeated with computers.
Posted by: brog | August 31, 2008 4:53 PM
brog, it's likely that Fish actually could write a line of code. He may have been, God forbid, exaggerating. You know, being interesting and stuff.
He may well, for example, be capable of 'int x = 2;'.
Basically, since I'm not in the mood for diplomacy, the issue is this: your comments have been, shall we say, permeated with dickery.
There are, like, at least 3 different things you can learn how to do in this world (it could be a little bit more than that, but I'm not sure), and it's completely unreasonable to expect somebody to be capable in all of those disciplines.
The fact that you consider something important does not render it important to every other person on Earth.
Posted by: corpus | August 31, 2008 7:24 PM
i was pretty good with LOGO, and then later, HYPERCARD.
when i was like, 9.
that's about it, really.
Posted by: FISH | August 31, 2008 8:14 PM
Sorry about the dickery. Today has not been the best day for me. (I'm not saying this to try to offer an excuse, just as something of an explanation.)
I should have said something constructive, and just recommended that if you have never tried programming you might benefit from dabbling in a little sometime (and it turns out you had; Logo is awesome). The personal attack was completely uncalled for, and I apologise.
Posted by: brog | August 31, 2008 9:04 PM
I'm of two minds about this whole programming thing. On one hand, trying to design without programming is like trying to paint over telephone. I'm sure that it's possible, but I wouldn't want to try. On the other hand, we have way too many programmers already. We need people from diverse backgrounds if we're to overthrow the Evil Mainstream Conspiracy (TM). The last thing that we want to do is tell everyone that they need a degree in computer science to make games.
Posted by: Alex Vostrov | September 1, 2008 4:43 AM
"On one hand, trying to design without programming is like trying to paint over telephone."
hahaha - yet another fella that fails to understand that game design != game programming. that fool shigeru miyamoto would be a much better game designer if he programmed too.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 1, 2008 8:25 PM
"that fool shigeru miyamoto would be a much better game designer if he programmed too."
indeed he might.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 1, 2008 10:08 PM
"yet another fella that fails to understand that game design != game programming"
You do not seem to grasp the relationship between programming and design yourself. There are several advantages to being a designer-programmer.
1. Faster turnaround on whatever you want to change. This means that you can iterate quicker and make better design choices.
2. In the process of implementing your design choices, you stumble upon new ideas. Jon Blow talks about this in his prototyping lecture. A designer-programmer can explore the game space more effectively.
3. Another point brought up by Jonathan; no matter how exact you are in communicating with the programmer, there is always room for mis-communication. If you're not programming the game yourself, you're letting design decisions slip in that you didn't make. This might not be so bad if you keep it under control.
As I've said, I'm sure that one can just focus on the design. In fact, that might be a neccesity in large teams. On those, you'll have a design team, so you don't have that firm of a grasp on the game anyway.
Now perhaps I've missed something, and you're a brilliant designer yourself. Here's your chance to educate me. Stop hiding behind the mask of an anonymous coward and post some of your work.
Posted by: Alex Vostrov | September 1, 2008 10:20 PM
brog:
I do neither, I don't walk, take public transport, or even know how to drive. I stay at home most of the time, because I work from home (independent game developer, naturally). When I need to go somewhere, I take public transportation or walk, but that's not very often.
I think it's ridiculous to claim that there are things someone *has* to do just because of their surroundings. I wouldn't think that someone who didn't know how to swim and who lived in Venice was lazy.
If I were to pretend to think like you're thinking, I'd say that there's also something important you should have learned but haven't (polite social interaction), but I don't think you were too lazy to learn that, you probably had other things to learn, like programming. :)
Posted by: Paul Eres | September 2, 2008 2:41 AM
Solid interview. I've been quite excited about Fez and am currently following this years GAMMA3D; nice to get some fresh info about it.
Posted by: Eli | September 2, 2008 8:33 AM
Also; (unrelated) who cares if he can program or not, judge him on the quality of his products and the manner in which he presents himself.
Posted by: Eli | September 2, 2008 8:36 AM
while it's true i'd prolly be a better all around developer if i could atleast prototype my own ideas, i guess that being a good (i think) designer and artist will have to suffice for now. 2 out of 3 aint bad. there's not a whole lot of people who can claim to be excellent at everything.
i come from the industry, yeah? in the industry when you're a designer, you're a designer. that's all you do. you write docs and you build levels. you might have a to write a little bit of script, but that's about it. so i guess i brought that with me into the indie world. i am a designer. i do design. i am specialized. and i like to think im better at it for it. better than if i stretched myself thin over many disciplines.
as much as id like to be a cactus or a petri purho, my total lack of coding skills forces me to work with others, and that's probably a good thing.
Posted by: FISH | September 2, 2008 2:27 PM
Hey guys I was playing this game the other day and realised that the credits featured: Philippe Poisson.
Wonder if its the FEZ dude
http://www.gamespot.com/ds/action/thegoldencompass/index.html?tag=result;title;2
Posted by: Joe | September 5, 2008 2:30 PM
http://www.pigscene.com/?p=269
It would seem so.
Posted by: Sergio | October 13, 2008 10:34 AM