Interesting, a paranoid blog errr I mean a security blog. Now, in the same vein, I wonder why Symantec didn't warn me of the threat posed by a certain antivirus. Why didn't the security experts post something warning that if I uninstalled Norton, I was going to fucked my *NEW* computer up (yes, it was NEW as in NEW, Symantec. Arrrrgh!)? -this actually happened a 2 years ago.
On the game: didn't try it, but it sounds scary T.T. I reckon it would be fun presenting the game to a shmup hardcore gamer and see him destroy all his files -or downloaded porn heh

pd.1 please, don't start again the discussion about "artistic" games.
pd.2 Also, I guess they really have nothing else to say about threats on Mac (because we know Macs rule, and there's only a couple virus, etc), so they just take the first thing they find on the net and make it a threat, doesn't matter if it is a game and that it clearly states what it does. I'd call it a move of "desperation to spread the virus paranoia".

Well, there will always be people that start playing this game without reading the warnings for some reason. Or someone who is carefull not to hit anything important accidentaly deleting some essetial system library. So yeah, this game is pretty dangerous, and classifying it as a virus is certainly understandable.

"Anti"-virus applications have long ago gone virus-application. Nothing new here. The choice in that regard is no longer about "bad guys" and "good guys" but rather "which bad guy do i want to get raped by?".

As for me: I went for something different: common sense 2.0 + OS-virtualization + backups. No infection since 7 years.

Symantec's probably the worst of all the anti-virus companies anyways. I can't believe we used to PAY for Symantec to fuck up our computer.

LOL! Who still uses anti-virus programs these days? It's called Common Sense 2009.

Aren't antiviruses still pre-installed in PC's? Anyway, ever since I opened my eyes and bought my Macbook, I forgot about viruses, trojans, every-hour auto-updates, spybots, games. Oh wait :P.
(Well, at least I am more productive in school).

oh so now Norton blocks two things, this game and tracking cookies!

seriously i'm a computer technician and Norton is one of the worst anti viruses available.

Symantec is like a babysitter for retarded computer users.
I think this is good as any publicity to the game. (at least this game)

this is awesome news! Ive been a fan of this game's idea (having never played it) and I hope it gets the attention it deserves. It such an awesome idea.

maybe because I'm not an games-are-art geek but I think this is a terrible game. I'd say it's just barely not a terrible idea but as an actual game sounds pretty inane. Just deleting random files? That could break the OS completely if you delete the wrong file. I'm having a waking nightmare about my nephew playing this and deleting my system folder. I'm not hearing anything about file discrimination. It'd be better if say on lvl 1 it deleted .mp3, .doc, and .avi. and on lvl 2 it added .mov, .mpg, and maybe by lvl 10 it deleted any file. It would really help the concept to have some sort of progression then maybe you wouldn't be classified as dangerous.

They DID see what he was supposedly getting at, being an asshole. I prefer idiots when they end up harming themselves, not others.

Yes symantec sucks but come on, of course they should label this as malware.

And about the "game", I dont think its perticulary clever really.
To me, having you FAIL in a game to have real out-of-game-consequences would be much more interesting then this.

There was this other "artsy" game that treatened (but never actually did) to delete files or format your HD that wich I thought was brilliant. cant remember it's name though...

He's not really being an asshole when it clearly states it is deleting your files if you kill something.

I think overall this is fine. Symantec even concedes that the game itself is not terrible, but on an unsuspecting user it can be.

It's reasonable and any user who wants to play it can just ignore the warning, at their own risk of course.

This seems rather akin to exhibiting spent fuel rods as sculpture...

You should at least have a free anti-virus. Not everything that can rape your computer is visible.

It's amusing that they take a pissy, pseudo-artistic game that does deliberate harm to your computer (hence why no one with an ounce of sense would play it) is called a malevolent software.

Can't comment on Symantec and the quality of their products, but frankly, so what? It doesn't change the fact that the game is stupid, it's done just to get attention and the author is sadly getting it.

@latest anonymous: Exactly my thoughts. Those Mac-users saying they're safe on their Macs because there are barely to no viruses on it... Those're lies. There're a few KNOWN viruses. That doesn't mean it can't be swarming with crap without knowing it. All those people saying they don't need anti-virus software work that in hand, too.

not a trojan...

Breaking news: Symantec classifies the "DEL" and "RM" OS commands as viruses. "Yes, they do warn you and ask for confirmation," said a blog post, "but if you say 'yes,' it deletes the files you passed in as an argument! There's also nothing stopping someone with more malicious intentions from modifying it to delete ALL the files on your computer!"

A trojan is not really a trojan if IT TELLS YOU IT'S GOING TO KILL YOUR COMP.

Does the game say it will delete files? Or is it only on his blog that he explains the game?

Okay here is what I would put on my website if I were Zach:

"You've gotta love the MIDI music!"
-- Symantec

"A trojan is not really a trojan if IT TELLS YOU IT'S GOING TO KILL YOUR COMP."

That's a pretty ridiculous logic.
There are a lot of presumptions, ie; the player must read english.

I don't think the author is necessarily trying to be artsy. He is using a technique that is well-known for books, movies, and other media.

He's trying to make a point. He's posing a question to the player, and getting the player to think about it.

It's just, instead of writing a poem or filming a movie to accomplish this, he's using a game. I don't see what the problem is.

The thing is: in the Symantec's website, they say "There’s nothing stopping someone with more malicious intentions from modifying it slightly...". I think THIS is the point. I haven't played the game, but I imagine there's some kind of warning about what it does. Just imagine now if someone modify the game, erasing the warning. And most people don't even read the warnings when installing/playing a game anyways.

Sorry about the double-post, but Jonathan, I don't remember reading any book wich destroyed my other books, or watching any movie wich destroyed my dvd collection. Yes, he is trying to make a point, but this doesn't make the game less dangerous.

So... Does it delete any file it finds? Like Bios or other delete-this-and-your-computer-f*cking-stops-working files?

I've heard some stupid ideas for a game, but this one adds another dimension: dangerous. I sure hope no one with a lot of very important files (i.e. my/your boss/pay clerk) plays this game. Bye, bye next week's check.

@ Cerv: Valid points and concerns indeed.

Cerv: What if someone modified some OTHER game so that it erased your hard drive? Why would that be any harder?

Apropos of nothing, really but yes, there is a book that destroys other books.

Debord's Mémoires has a cover made of heavy duty sandpaper.

@ Cerv
"Just imagine now if someone modify the game, erasing the warning."

Any executable file that you run on your computer has the capability to call any kernel functions at the security level at which you execute it. That includes deleting files. It does not require magic, just a single function call.

So this can happen with every game? On windows too or Macintosh only? Or Both?

p.s To use Norton Antivirus you must be drunk or something.. :lol:

@Grasa & Anom:

Yeah, I didn't thought about that - if the "someone could modify it!" argument is true, EVERY executable would be labeled as a malware.

But, still, since the game is known to be harmful to the user, I think any aditional warnings are good. I don't use any Symantec's products, but I think you can just ignore the antivirus/deactivate it and play the game anyway, no? So, it being labeled as a malware should not be a great problem to anyone trying to play it.

I don't see the problem. It is as simple as not playing the game. Any time you download and run a random executable you are running the risk of harming your computer. People need to stop getting their panties all bunched up.

Neat, I wanted to see it in action; the idea of this game has been making the rounds for discussions a lot lately, and I hadn't seen any good demo videos yet. Seeing the files disappearing in the browser as the game runs is amusing.

That said, I have no intent to ever play this game.

Obviously games can delete files. Otherwise you would never be able to delete save files from within the game.

Yep you're right..

I didn't think the obvious in the first place.. every .exe can read-write at will.

anyone who doesn't realise it deletes your files when you destroy ships in the game is an idiot, to find out about the game you'll probably have had to seen a review/article about it which has a warning, then you go to the download site, a big red very clear warning and the download is small and you have to look through the text to find it, then you have a warning screen when you play the game.

nobody should play the game unless they want a bit of fun deleting some files on a hard drive before wiping/formatting it or something, or if you just want to see the ship designs and stuff without shooting at anything.

people who are saying that the game is stupid are being close-minded, it's just some kind of social experiment /social commentary about people being able to play a game even if they are destroying things that are close/vital to them, in an interactive form.

it would actually be a great game if you could set it to only delete things in a certain folder, then you could have fun destroying some trash.

just one question: how did the creator test this game for bugs?

Jonathan Collins

The problem is that he's doing it in a ridiculous way. He could have made the same point without making the game damage your computer, but he didn't.

The only explanation is that he was too lazy or uncreative to find a way to get his point across, so he just made one that is most likely to attract attention to himself.

Some people are like that: negative or positive, they demand attention and will do anything they can to do so. Like a dog.

And there is no excuse of an artistic license: he could have made it so that it appears that it damaged your computer (Batman Arkham Asylum once had such a moment when I thought my computer suddenly broke but it turned out this was intended).

Cerv

It can't just casually delete the BIOS. That would require some wonky programming, trying to integrate every mobo protocol to your computer- But it can try and erase system files or program files.

robolee

Oh, I heard that argument: I MUST believe that an old house is haunted, regardless of the fact that no one was killed there and at any one moment, the only thing the house shows that its old and need of renovations. A moving chair isn't just the wind coming in trough the broken window, its a spirit rocking a chair. The noises aren't rats or the house falling apart, its the ghost trying to communicate. The weird pipe sounds isn't just old clogs, its the spirit talking in Morse code or some other stupid bullshit. Strangely, there are no spirits or ghosts in newly-built houses.

Fuck you. No, seriously, fuck you and that "but it's art" bullshit: it's not social commentary, its not making a point, its a shameless attention-grabbing effort by doing the most audacious thing the author could think of.

His pseudo-artistic excuses are moot: if I put out a starving dog with a sign saying "starving dog - its art people" and refuse anyone to feed it or help it in any way while not doing anything else, than am I doing art? No, I'm abusing an animal under the pretence of art.

There is art with deeper meanings and there is reading into things. There is a difference and some of us is smart enough to know it.

"The only explanation is that he was too lazy or uncreative to find a way to get his point across, so he just made one that is most likely to attract attention to himself."

Stop trolling please!

My main and pretty much only concern with this program was that it could break your system by deleting system level files. I actually sent an e-mail to Zach and it seems his point is in targeting user documents like pictures or mp3s or pdfs and the like. If the program actually /does/ stay away from stuff like my bash install and targets my home folder and my app folder and the like then I withdraw any complaint I have. He didn't confirm it but I don't remember anything system vital being deleted in the video.

This is going to be, like, soooo effective you guys. I mean, Mac users totally use Norton Antivirus, right?

@Zixinus Actually there is an artist who starved a dog to death and broadcast it on the internet. There's also a guy who held a vote on whether he should kill himself of waterboard a dog. Also was considered art.

He's not trying to be an artist though. He claims that the user is never told to kill anything, so it is using your own assumption that you must kill stuff. If you leave it alone, it leaves your computer alone.

Anyway, it can't possibly break your computer beyond repair. Just reinstall your operating system or run the game inside a virtual machine. Besides, mac is unix based, so users don't even have the permission to delete critical system files anyway.

Kenshiro... this game deletes files from your hard drive. Last time I checked, my bios was not stored on the hard drive. Stop spreading hysteria and try learning something instead.

Arkham Asylum fakes computer damage? Eternal Darkness for the Gamecube used a similar trick, where it would fake a disc read error. I wouldn't be surprised if a Metal Gear Solid game has done something similar at some time.

As for modifying Lose/Lose, you don't have to do even that much to cause problems. You just need someone distributing it or linking to it with the claim that the file deletion is just a trick, like the above games. Or claiming that the game has since been modified, or that it was buggy and the file deletion just didn't work.

It isn't like games haven't lied about such things before, as the above mentioned games show.

As for the statement, you could do the same "shooting things is bad" by having shooting things decrease your score. But that wouldn't get you a bunch of publicity.

It can't just casually delete the BIOS. That would require some wonky programming, trying to integrate every mobo protocol to your computer- But it can try and erase system files or program files.